Breaking Patterns, Claiming Power: A Leadership Journey with Victoria St Fleur

In this powerful and transformative episode, Victoria St. Fleur, an extraordinary mentor known for her unapologetic authenticity, razor-sharp wisdom, and no-nonsense leadership style, joins us for an unfiltered conversation. Together, we explore her journey of embracing her unique identity and transcending societal expectations to redefine what true leadership and personal success look like.

We dive deep into critical topics that resonate with high-achieving women, including the audacity to lead from a place of integrity, the concept of the 'bottom bar,' and why embodying your standards—not just preaching them—shifts everything. 

This episode is for the woman ready to disrupt her own cycles of self-sabotage, shift her relationship with self-worth and money, and rise into authentic leadership. With insights on personal integrity, responsibility, and the emotional evolution required to step into true power, this conversation will challenge you to level up in ways you didn’t think possible.

Follow Victoria on Instagram at @ofrootandbranch for more bold insights into owning your power and creating a life of freedom through aligned leadership.

00:00 Introduction to Victoria St. Fleur

01:17 The Journey of Self-Discovery

05:38 Leadership and Authenticity

10:40 The Concept of the Bottom Bar

17:28 Integrity in Leadership

33:04 The Role of Money and Success

39:51 Understanding the Importance of Money

40:21 The Subconscious Operating System

41:40 Fear and the Unknown

43:28 The Cycle of Self-Sabotage

48:26 Responsibility and Freedom

51:08 Power and Identity

01:01:33 The Role of Identity in Personal Growth

01:08:14 Final Thoughts and Offers

Ready to elevate your personal power and step into your most authentic self? Download the Reinvention Roadmap now and start your journey toward unmatched clarity, self-mastery, and bold transformation. This powerful guide will help you redefine your path and create a vision for your future that aligns with your deepest values and aspirations. Get instant access and begin crafting the life you’re meant to lead.

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Transcript

Lois StGermaine: 1:08

Welcome back. My friends. You are in a four and extraordinary conversation today. My guest is the one and only Victoria St. Fleur. And she is not just a mentor. My mentor. She is a force, a stunning communicator who carries a depth of hidden wisdom and insight. Vic is one of those individuals who manages to bring both levity and laser-sharp clarity to the table. And with a multi-six figure business under her belt, she leads with unapologetic, authenticity, integrity, and a fierce Brooklyn edge that you can't help. But admire. Whether she's calling out patterns that keep us stuck or guiding us towards our true power Victoria's gift is in seeing what others can't and saying what others won't. So buckle up because today's conversation is going to challenge inspire and as always entertain. Let's dive in. So welcome to the show, Vic, you are actually the first person. On my newly branded lead between the lines podcast. So this is so exciting. I'm very pleased

Victoria St Fleur: 2:23

to hear this. I'm very happy to be

Lois StGermaine: 2:26

So I want to just like jump right in and talk about I don't even know how I found you. I don't either i've been trying to like retrace my steps and I have no idea but I know it started almost a year ago now, and I think um You The love and service might have been the first thing that I Thought from you and was in that container. And I remember finding you and thinking, this woman does not look or sound anything like the people that I've been following and listening to. And. What is her deal? And I just want to know what gave you the audacity to be so different.

Victoria St Fleur: 3:12

I love this so much. Um, so first of all, I adore you. Um, you know, I think that if I were to. Look at myself, my, my self concept or my perception of me. Ah, I would say like, am I like someone that's like so different? And I think what I would say is that, you know, for a long time in my life, I never felt like the, the internal match the external in a lot of ways. And I would say that like the way that I thought didn't match my environment. The things that I wanted didn't really match what I had. The kind of person I was wasn't really matching the people that I knew even. Like I was always very different almost in some ways from like the environment that I was in. And I think that I was always in places or with people where I stood out. And, and the best way I can say that is almost like, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm biracial and um, I always had friends that were like Eastern European with these like little Russian moms who like loved me, but I would write just as an example, I would have these groups of friends who were like, just kind of from this totally different walk of life than I was. Um, and, and those were my people. Like that was my like family almost. Right. And I was somebody that was very much so like worldly. And I wanted to like be out and be in the world, but I would find myself in these very kind of. in these very simple neighborhoods in like New York, right. Um, in Brooklyn with my mom. And I think the piece of like the audacity to be different was that I was always just myself and I was just in places that weren't reflecting that. And so I think that I had learned how to acclimate into whatever space that I was in, because as different as I may have appeared, perhaps, um, I'm very social. Like, I can be very social despite being trans. an absolute introvert. And so I believe that once it came to business, I think that I had always kind of felt black sheepish, you know, or I'd always kind of felt like, I don't want to say like an outcast, but like an outsider taken in. And I think that above all, You know, something I joke about is that like one day on it, like on my headstone, it's not, it's never going to say she was a woman of few words. Like she really didn't know what to say, right? Like that's never going to happen. And I, and I believe that like language transcends everything. And I think that I was really given the gift of gab. Um, I think that it was also the thing that I was very much so criticized for, like, oh, he's talking too much, but I believe that my ability to speak, my ability to express or articulate myself with words, um, was something that really softened anyone who thought I was so different. And I think that that was something that really, um, As part of, as kind of part of who I am, I've always found is that like people who spend time with me tend to leave with a more open mind as well, which I think is just a really kind of unique, special quality that happens on its own. So I think the audacity of it all was like, uh, just, just lifestyle growing up, like where I was, who I was around and learning to kind of make the most of where I was in any moment.

Lois StGermaine: 6:59

Yeah, I can see that. And you said, I was just myself, which I think was the difference that I was seeing because most of us in the corporate world or on the interweb are not ourselves. We're playing a part of who we think they are. our audience wants to see, right? Or who we think we have to be. So how, like, have you always just been yourself? Absolutely not. Were you, like, how

Victoria St Fleur: 7:31

did you get to that? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. You know, I spent a long time trying to, like, be who I think I needed to be and who people, other people wanted me to be. Like, and I mean, like, from like a kid. Um, and for years I worked even in In retail and, you know, kind of the customer is always right. And like incredibly, incredibly unqualified individuals in leadership positions, supervisory positions, management positions. Um, and that was just always, it always felt like borderline atrocious, you know, to, to have to kind of deal with that because I knew that people were really on, a power trip. It wasn't really about leadership. Um, and I would even say for myself, like in struggling with leadership was, you know, I wanted to be everybody's friend and, you know, in leadership, you can't always be everybody's friend. And I didn't understand that I didn't have the maturity for it. But what I would also say with that is that it definitely, it made it difficult for me to be led. And so I was always very, um, resistant. To other people's direction, I would say. And I think it's because I didn't experience leadership that I really respected. And I think the first time that I really settled in to, um, any sort of role where there was, there was somebody in a position of leadership that really inspired me was actually when I was in personal training and I had the most extraordinary, extraordinary manager. And he was just, compassionate and kind and clear and skilled. Um, he could talk to anyone like there was absolutely a personable factor to him. Um, and in that I was able to really thrive with something I loved. And it was my, it was, it was like my favorite job I had ever had. And, um, you know, we went through several shifts in, in, in management within that, within, within the place that I worked. And, um, It was because of kind of the change in management that I ended up leaving, but I would have stayed there forever. And it was the first time that I actually understood that the development and the embodiment of the leader was actually the thing that dictated the performance of the staff. And you had people in that building that like showed up every single day. And you know, some of us showed up at like 6am for clients and we didn't leave until 10 o'clock at night till the last person left. And we would be in there someday 6am till 10pm multiple days in a row. And we didn't even mind it because the environment was just so supportive of us that everybody was really kind of in their glory. And we were the top performing, we were the top performing trainers in the entire company.

Lois StGermaine: 10:29

That's awesome. It's amazing how one person can actually change your whole point of view and Which leads me to You were like the very first person to ever call me out about the incongruence between how I was thinking about Showing up and what God, I don't even know what the incongruence, my embodiment versus my words, I guess, like you were the very first, especially online mentor, coach, whatever, however we want to define ourselves, even from corporate managers, like no one has ever said, look, You can't teach that. Like, you're actually not qualified to teach that because you don't embody it. And, um, you talk a lot about having a bottom bar, which, prior to you, I had only heard about a top bar. And raising a top bar, I hear the word standards, but it never resonated the way that you explain it. So, like, how did, how did you get to that? Like, and what is that bottom bar that you talk about a lot.

Victoria St Fleur: 11:48

So I think the first piece of. Like right, being able to, to really kind of call people out with things and, and any sort of leadership, coaching, mentorship, whatever it is, is like, you can't watch what people do. You have to see what they say and you have to see who they are. And, I mean, actions are fleeting, you know, I want to see and just observe like what happens. Right? Some people will say when no one's looking, but what I say is like, I just want to know who you are when you're, when you're tired and when you're hungry and when you don't have the energy to perform anymore, because that's really going to tell me how you actually operate. And I think that that concept for me around the bottom bar, to be honest, I don't even remember where I heard this. I mean, I really don't, I really want to credit someone, but like, what we'll start with is like, nothing's original, right? But what I would say with that is when you see how somebody operates, when they don't have energy, when they're tired, when they are lazy, when they don't want, when they don't, when, when they really don't have the energy to kind of like give and perform and be at their best, you're really going to see what a person's made of, what they're capable of. And that that's usually what needs improvement because I think that when we are In the mood, when we're energized, when we feel good, like there is anything that we can show up as, right? And I think that part of the, the raising the bottom bar is that we strive and we strive and we strive and we strive to have this extraordinary standard of performance or whatever it is, but that given the opportunity, we will, we will cut ourselves short and we will take the easy way. We will do the lazy thing. We will cut corners. We will, um, We will not stretch ourselves or challenge ourselves nearly as much the second that we don't have the energy to sustain the performance anymore. And that for me is where all work matters. It literally, like to me, it's like who you are when you have the energy to be someone else makes no difference. It's like when you have no energy and you're triggered and you're angry and you're frustrated and things aren't going your way. It's like, who do you become then? Because that's actually really the telltale sign. Otherwise you're just, you're, you're just kind of playing the Jekyll and Hyde game. And especially in a position of leadership, you become unpredictable. Which means that your, the people that you're working with, the people that you're leading, like what, like whatever context that's in your clients, your subordinates, however you want to say that, um, they find you to be unregulated and you're unreliable and it's not so much in your task. It's more in like, Who you are in your energy. It's no longer grounded. And I truly believe that the second that people catch you, you know, quote unquote, out of character with that, it, um, it really starts to create a really subtle power dynamic, right? And I think that that's, that's where a lot of power dynamics come in is that it starts when you have somebody that you think acts one way, but the second that they're emotionally, um, incapable of composing themselves. Now you're like, Whoa, they, they just got a little bit, you know, and now I'm going to behave differently to avoid that. That's problematic. And so even so when it comes to, for instance, working with people and people are, you know, kind of seeing you behave in one way and they see you, like, kind of dropping the bar, living in a way, right? That's not congruent to what it is that you preach. Now they no longer have that trust with you. And does that create a power dynamic where now we have to speak in a different way, trying to overcompensate, belittle somebody? in order to try to make them seem less than right. Because that's what happens is when we get found out, it creates a rift where there is now trust fractured. And so for me, the whole concept of the bottom bar is actually about that. It's always about that. And it's different when people show up and have a transparency kind of about their bottom bar with things. And I think that's something that I also have always shown and spoken in with my With my clients, with people, it's like I level with them. There may be things that I have more experience with. There may be things that I have more, more knowledge about, but I am still somebody who is rectifying some of the bottom bars in my own life. And I think it's important that we also acknowledge that like leader, leadership doesn't come easy. potentially some low bottom bars. And I think that that's the evolutionary process of it. But I think that when we are disingenuine with people about like where we are, I hate to say like a work in progress, but like where we are. Developing our accountability with whatever that, that, that bottom line standard is and working on our self regulation. I think that at least creates respect because when people see you out of integrity with that standard that you say you have, and they see a bottom bar and they see you operating in a way like, Ooh, I see you like this all the time, but this really feels out of character. What it does is they lose. Trust, which means they lose respect. And if they lose respect, the only way to gain that back is one, you earn it, which can always have a little bit of a fracture in it. Um, and most people don't have that patience. They need to be in a position of leadership. And so it defaults to control. And that's for me where it becomes problematic.

17:44

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Lois StGermaine: 20:21

I used to preach this all the time, um, in the corporate world. About keeping your word, especially as a manager, even something as simple as scheduling a meeting, a one on one with somebody, and then at the last minute canceling or, you know, rescheduling and rescheduling and putting them off. And I'm like, you don't understand the amount of trust that you are chipping away at with your relationship with that person. It's. The inability to do what you say you're going to do is, I think, the most detrimental thing to, to any type of leadership role, or even just your trust in yourself is the same, right?

Victoria St Fleur: 21:10

Well, just on that piece, what I will say, what I will say, just on that piece though, that you added of like being able to keep your word to things. I think that leadership really exposes also kind of the integrity you have with yourself on such a deep level that when you are not keeping your word with other people, it's really just reflecting like there are things that you are not keeping your word with, with yourself, that your trust is fractured with yourself. And I think that that's the piece that becomes the most exposing is like, you don't respect your own leadership. Right. You don't respect your own leadership. And I think that that's the piece that for me becomes the most important factor of why this matters. It's like, if you wouldn't follow you, why would other people? And I think that when we have that realization, we don't know what it is to actually have respect because we don't give it to ourselves. And I think that that like that matters more than anything. And I think one of the things for me that would. You know, like I would always enjoy like having like more personal conversation sometimes even with like my managers or people in a position of I guess you could say like authority where I worked. The thing that always had me lose respect for them was when they would tell me when like how they were crossing their own boundaries. It was the times and it was usually about like a personal relationship, right? And I mean it may not be have been appropriate in certain cases like they would you know Tell me kind of like about a guy and the guy wasn't you know Doing whatever and like it was obvious like this wasn't this wasn't a relationship for them to be in and they would say something That my brain at the time was just like oh my god, that is such a sign of like weakness, right? It's like how could you? Be okay with that. And what I realized in that was that like they were really kind of posturing or pretending in their leadership. This wasn't something embodied. And that was when I started to see many more of the how do I say this kind of like the fractures and their ability to actually lead and manage well. And it was really because like they just didn't have that integrity with themselves.

Lois StGermaine: 23:26

Yeah, it's interesting because when you, I first started listening to you around this, I recognized that when I wasn't at my peak, right? Like you talk about when you're at your best, it's kind of easy to hold that bar. But when I wasn't there. I then began holding other people to my top bar instead of like letting them have their own bars, but that disconnect was, I didn't know that it was me seeing me and. It's so glaring for me now. I feel it happening. Like even with my husband, if I have a hard time receiving, and when he tries to do something nice, kind for me, but I know he doesn't enjoy it, then I find ways to nitpick it. At my top bar, I'm like, well, if you're not going to do it at this level, then there's no sense, like, don't even bother. Like I catch myself doing that all the time. So it's so interesting how this isn't just, you know, a work thing or how you show up, it's, it shows up in all your relationships and how you account for yourself. I find that

Victoria St Fleur: 24:50

when we do it with people, it's really like a time to. Create a distraction, right? Like we're distracting them from, how would I say this? We are distracting them from actually seeing that we ourselves aren't doing it. And I think that this is something that, you know, you'll probably agree with, like, even when you see people in the online space, Screaming and howling about standards with things. It's almost like, you know, they're holding themselves to standards and I'm like, there's no possible way that your business is, is performing that way, and you're actually living at that standard. And so I think that that is such kind of like this transference, like it's just this like incredible projection where. We, we want to hold to that standard. And I think what's really important here to just also say, it's one thing when a standard is something you value, and it's something completely different when you think that a standard is something you need to be in order to receive something, in order to be seen a certain way, right? And what I find is that when it's a value, it's embodied. Like when it's genuinely a value for you, it's embodied. There's no question about it, right? When it's actually something that you think you need to do to be seen in a certain way, it's not actually important to you. It's something you think that's important to other people's perception of you. And so it's something that. requires more energy from you, right? It's something that requires you to, and so if no one's looking and no one's present, there's no need to abide by it. Right. And so, right. Or you're more comfortable around people. So for instance, my standards might look much higher if I was in a room full of my clients. And if I was in a room with You know, with, with, with Patrick, my partner, that would look very, that might look very different, right? There, it would look very different in certain moments. And why is it? It's like, well, he's more accepting of me and I have that security with him. What stays the same around Patrick are the things that are my values. That's a very clear indication. If you're ever sure, like, is this something I value? Or is this just something I'm performing with? What changes the second you move out of the room with somebody and you'll see very quickly what's the value, right? And I think that that is a really healthy indication because I think it's the same thing in any sort of work environment is like, if this isn't how you abide, if you're working in the office by yourself, it's not, it's not a value. It's like, that's, that's a standard that you're really holding for performance.

Lois StGermaine: 27:29

Yeah. And I think it shows up too in, well, what, in the corporate world, we call it box checking. Right. So yes, I'm doing the thing. But I'm only doing it because I want to be seen doing it or, you know, it's, it's not an embodied thing that I do. And I noticed it and you and I had a conversation about this, like even with my podcast, like almost at a hundred episodes, but in the last, So I have just been checking the box. I didn't approach it as a, how do I become a better podcaster? I just approached it as, Oh, I have a podcast. I put out an episode every week and it's such a different dynamic when you're actually. Like trying to improve the skill of what you're doing versus going through the mechanics. And we see that in the online world all the time, right? We copy what other people are doing because they say it got them success. So we think if I just do the mechanics of what they did, then I'll have success and it never works. And we don't understand it. And. There's a lot of marketing out there that makes you think that for sure. You know,

Victoria St Fleur: 28:50

something, something I always think about is something that at my lead had said, has said, and it was, uh, it was in one of his podcast episodes. He said, you know, people will always let a little bit of success lie to them. Like, you know, you get a little bit of success with something and you let it lie to you and you don't find it relevant or like important to need to continue to challenge yourself. And I think that that's something that becomes. really relevant is like, you might have a standard to want to begin something, but do you keep the standard and the improvement of the skill? And I think what it is, is that a lot of people have a potential tolerance to start things, but I don't think people have a tolerance for excellence. with many things. And so I believe that people will start something, start, let's say podcasting, right? But will you become an extraordinary podcaster? Will you raise the bar? Will you raise the standard, um, consistently? In what you're doing. And so, right, you might have the success of getting the podcast together, but will you actually challenge yourself? And I think that that's the space of leadership and growth that so many people do not understand. And it's actually staying in this. Like, how do I say this? It's like staying in this like very particular zone where it's almost kind of like the L it's like an elevator is how I think of it almost. It's that there's something that you're doing and it's like, it's, it's working, it's working well, but there's always something where as you improve, right? That bar just continues to raise above and below you. You know, it just all begins to raise above and below you a year from now, you would never dream of recording a podcast the way you might be today. And that's, and that's the growth. And I think that that's the piece that people want to achieve something so that they feel validated, that they get the dopamine, that they're like, Oh, I've accomplished this. And that people are willing to settle for a lot of mediocre successes instead of being in a space that is, um, consistently challenging. And I think that when people choose to stay in a space that's consistently challenging, they're going to have a very, very, very different kind of outcome. They're going to be a very, very different kind of person. And I think people don't realize that like success can also become your safe zone. When you, you know, when things feel good, but I think that it's, you know, you kind of have to decide like, is that what you want because anything that you are then settling for that you feel that success with that feels safe for you. Um, that, that's where I think a lot of people get a little bit cocky because they're not willing to give that up to be challenged anymore. And I think it takes a very special kind of person to be willing to consistently lean outside of that. I

Lois StGermaine: 31:47

mean, if I'm being honest, I started the podcast because they said, that's what you should do. Like, I never looked at it through and which I think you do brilliantly is how can I serve my client? Better. And how does this vehicle actually fit into what I'm trying to create? Like I never in the beginning, of course, I didn't have that lens to see things through. It's like, Oh, they say, do a podcast. I'll do a podcast. What does that mean? I just show up and talk for 30 minutes, 15 minutes, whatever. And there was no. threading, I guess, of the podcast into service for the woman that I want to work with. And I think like you do that beautifully, the way all of your stuff threads and works together. Oh, I

Victoria St Fleur: 32:43

love that. Yeah. I think that that's something that I have thought about for a long time. And you know, this was something, you know, I love that you said that we started with love and service and love and service was something for me that was really understanding that like leadership. For yourself is like fine and well, but when it comes to kind of there's a shallowness to it because it's not very purposeful, I feel. And when you are really kind of brave enough to say, no, I want to, I want to help other people. Like I want to, I want to, I want to really be the person that is safe for other people, you realize that a lot of your leadership, like a lot of leadership skills in general, I believe number one is learning how to protect other people from you, first and foremost. And number two is how to be someone who can function with enough clarity about themselves that we're keeping the benefit and well being of others front of mind. And so I believe that when I look at things, especially in my business, it's like, There are things I could want to do, all I want, is it serving them? And I think that that is something very, I think that's something that can be very challenging for people. Is looking at how is this actually showing up? Or how is this existing to support and be in support of this greater purpose and these other people? And I think that that for me is something that also, I think that that's always kind of like true North. When it comes to, to, to my work, to anything I do, it's like true North for me is always, how is it serving them? Like, how is it serving them first? And like checking in with myself, right? Is this something that's sustainable for me? Is this something that I even have any interest in doing? Because if I can't sustain it, it also doesn't serve them. Right. And, and so I think. that even, um, the improvement of my skill, you know, and I think about this even on a personal development level is like, you keep getting better, not just because you get better, you get better so that your people that you don't, you don't, your people don't outgrow you, you know, it's like, if you're not in, like, I think that's part of leadership is like you always being willing to meet that. And so I think that like one of my great motivating factors of growth, you know, is something that I take from kind of this idea of, you know, one day somebody is going to ask you like, well, you know, how did you get better at this? And you're either going to say, I was too scared and I settled for this kind of mediocrity. Um, or you're going to say like, this is, this is what I did. This is how I went about it. This is how I took care of it. This is, this was the decision that I made. And so I think that something that maybe even people don't realize about me a lot of times, it's like, You know, there's a lot of things that I'd be willing to settle for. There's a lot of things that I might be willing to settle for. But one of my greatest motivations and why I make the decisions I do, um, to challenge myself as much as I have, um, is always, because I'm like, I'm not letting, like, I'm not willing to like, let my people, like, I'm not willing to let my people go. Right. And so because of it, it's like, It's like I get better because it's, it's like, as, as when I get better, we get better when I get better, they get better. And so I think that there's a responsibility in it almost. I think it's like when you take that on in leadership, um, yeah, like they're just the filter. Like people are just the filter, which is something that I think that like people who really know me personally might chuckle at because they're like Victoria, they're like. You are the most, not the just introverted human ever. You know, there are some times like I look at my phone and I'm like, too overwhelmed to answer that, like too overwhelming to answer that. But is my intrinsic motivation in many moments, um, about how is this going to benefit others unquestionably?

Lois StGermaine: 36:52

Yeah. Um, I think that's all threads into the whole, um, motivational crossroads that we find ourselves at once we begin to achieve some level of success and then It doesn't fulfill us anymore. So you are pretty transparent about everything in your life from a background standpoint, but I've heard you talk about having, like, really successful financial gains in months or years and still being miserable, which I believe. Again, in the corporate world, just to compare both worlds, there's a lot of women in that exact position now that are wondering why they're not happy because they just achieved everything they thought. Would make them successful. And they thought they were going to get the feeling of success from that achievement. And it didn't happen. And you've talked about it being you feeling the worst you've ever felt in a time when you made the most money from your business. So I don't know if you want to expand on that a little bit,

Victoria St Fleur: 38:08

share. Something that I think I've learned around money is that money, you feel about money, how you feel about yourself. Until you start really looking at money as this independent relationship. And the experience with money is very similar to the way that I see it. It's the same way that like you will have all of these relational projections with other relationships in your life, right? Where You feel about like what you're really seeing in them is really what you're seeing in yourself kind of like what we were saying with Those projections about holding people to this standard when I'm not actually operating that way, right? and I think that the thing about money is We have so many Um, we have so many expectations of like how we think money's going to make us feel. There's so much emotional, um, anticipation about the way we're going to feel at some sort of milestone. My experience, money is perpetually disappointing. It's perpetually disappointing. Like there's like, Yeah. And I think that there's like a momentary excitement for things, you know, it's like, I mean, ask me if I think money can buy happiness and I have a very unpopular opinion with certain things. But when it comes to like the earning of money to give me some sort of like feeling more or less, um, it's fleeting. It's so fleeting. And so something that I think I learned in my experience was, you know, having this, Huge kind of, um, growth in my business that went from, you know, I went from, in 2021, I went from like, October was a$0 month in my business to like a three and a half thousand dollars month in November, four, four and a half thousand in December. January was a$12,000 month, and then February rolled around as like a, a 39 and a half thousand dollars month, like a$40,000 month. And I was like, this. is insane, like, and this is like coming from somebody who, like, for years in life, never made more than 30 grand in a year. Like, I was like, this is like, this is crazy. What is going on with this? We love criminal justice. This is fucking nuts. I was like, this is fucking crazy. Like I, but I was so numb to the experience because when that happened, all my insecurities didn't go away. All the things I felt about myself didn't go away. All my doubts, all my fears, like it didn't do anything. And, and so something that I have found is that money becomes a blanket for scarcity. It doesn't cure it. You know? And the second I saw those numbers drop in my business later on, I was just shaking in my little muck locks, you know, I was, I was really, I was scared. And something that I had to learn with that at least was that, you know, money wasn't a cure for scarcity. If anything, money was the thing that amplified it. Money was the thing that let me know it was alive and very, very well. And so, you know, even in moments when I had anticipated. that it would be impossible to make money because I was scared or I was sad or I was feeling fill in the blank. Like money did not care about how I was feeling. Like there was no emotion I needed to have. Like money was so neutral to all of that. Um, and so what I realized was that money could come no matter how I felt and that money was never going to change how I felt. And it was because of all of that kind of. Like it just very much, it was just like, recognizing how backwards so many people had this. Um, and I think something else is that we never, we never get curious enough, whether it be with money or with humans. Like, why do I want the thing? Why do I want the person? Why do I want this? To, um, how do I say this? Why do I want more money? Why do I want my, my husband, right, to perform at this standard? Or do this a certain way? Why am I, why, what's the projection with this? And I think what it does is it really exposes our low tolerance for vulnerability. It just exposes a really low tolerance for vulnerability, and it exposes how frightened so many of us are, um, like so frightened to actually ask for for what we want. And I think it's like, well, I want money because of Like this kind of alternative life. I want to lead with things. I want to be able to travel. I want to be able to buy what I want. I want to be able to be debt free. I want to be able to do a Pilates class. I want to be able to start, you know, remodeling my home. I want to be able to do pottery, like whatever it is. Why do you want your partner to do that? Because I want them to do it well so that like I know that they are happy with me, that they love me, that this is something that matters to them, that the way I want something done matters to them, right? It's like, there's something underneath that. And so I think that the scarcity is the fear that that need isn't going to get met, right? It's like, if I don't hit this milestone, Like, what else do I have to show X, Y, and Z about myself? Right. Or this number is really important to me. And it's like, well, why is it important to you? And so I think that it's actually a really positive indicator when you can relate to it that way to say like, it's really just there to show you what you want. Like money is there to show you what matters to you. And I think that if we had a greater tolerance for that vulnerability, we could use that. Um, we could use that intrinsic motivation to our leverage without allowing it to be so shallow and just making it about the cash we make.

Lois StGermaine: 44:11

Yeah, it's interesting because I talk about it through the lens of this subconscious or unconscious operating system that we develop as children to keep us safe. And then we perfect it. Over time and it is what helps us win. However, it's also what limits us and it always is going to tell you that when you want something that is impossible to that operating system, it is going to tell you that there is going to be worse. Then what you have now, and I feel like so many women are good, right? Their life is good. It's not great. It's definitely not audacious and bold and exciting. But the fear and that programming that's running and you teach it through a lens of patterns of, but what I have isn't bad. It's okay. So the thought of giving up. The good in order to get to the great, that just seems like too big of a bridge. Yeah.

Victoria St Fleur: 45:30

People aren't willing to take the risk to lose it. Big of a gap to bridge. Not willing to potentially lose

Lois StGermaine: 45:34

it. People. So do we not ask the questions because we don't want to know the answer?

Victoria St Fleur: 45:43

Yes. And. The brain has just one function. Keep you alive. That's it. It literally could care less about anything beyond that. Beyond keeping you alive, the brain is interested in very little. It doesn't care about your accomplishments. It doesn't care about if you're happy. It just wants you to stay in places where it can predict everything. And so, right, like, there's complexities to this, like, very, very simple thing. Prehistoric and relatively sometimes, um, malfunctioning, like, survival brain, right? But, that's all it wants. It just wants to be able to predict. And so, the success that you have is, is only safe because it's predictable. Anything that the unknown, that's the unknown, your brain equates to death. And so, right, like the idea of, I'm going to, You know, pursue X, Y, and Z. Why am I in any way like kind of held back or not willing, or why am I sabotaging my growth? It's like to make it as dramatic as it actually is, is your brain is like, cause it's going to kill you. Duh. Like obviously you're going to die. Like, why would you do that? So what do you mean I'm going to die? It's like, well, you're gonna, you're gonna, we don't know what's going to happen. And so obviously the only answer is death. And it's like, well, that's pretty, Like, that's pretty fucking stupid. And it's like, well, according to me it's not, and so we're not doing it, right? And so, you know, the, the, the kind of the shadow that shows up in our patterns and our behaviors, our patterns are like, for instance, it's like, you know, you go to make the move towards what you want. And then, you know, you're like, You, there's something that distracts you, an emotion, a thought, a belief, whatever, some shiny object, right? Like you get distracted from that, right? And then you're no longer in that momentum towards the thing you want, you get discouraged, you get frustrated, you know, you kind of have this like internal implosion of doubting if you can do it, right? Eventually that becomes too emotionally distressing for you, you give up on it, and then your desire arises again. You go, you take the action, you get You know, a little bit into it, you get distracted by some sort of doubt, thought, belief, shiny object, fill in the blank. You pull back, you stop taking as many moves, right? You stop moving towards it. You get discouraged. You implode internally, right? And then what happens? Eventually you pull back because it's too emotionally distressing. The desire arises, you make them. And so you're now in this loop, right? And that's your pattern. Your pattern isn't, Being distracted. It's what you do, what happens then. Well, then you're distracted, then you're doubt, then you pull back, then you're spiraling, then you're emotionally, like, overwhelmed and disappointed by the thing. And so then you're just like, I'm gonna give up on it. But then the desire, it's, it's the entire cycle you get caught in. And so the more hurdles that your nervous system can put in front of you, the better. And so that pattern is a survival pattern, right? And so what it does is it creates this entire cycle where you now can run on that cycle on autopilot, right? It creates this autopilot experience and we tend to call it, I always sabotage myself. Now it's an identity. Now we don't need to even, now I don't even need to worry about it. Like she's not like, it's who she is. It's who she is. And so when you see that in your, you, you identify as a problem solved, your nervous system can move on to something else to keep you safe. And right. And meanwhile, your nervous system is kind of like, You know, the way I think of this is it's kind of like your nervous system is kind of like this kind of like really ignorant, toothless, like hillbilly. And like, it's like, look at us. We really got her out of the way. And it's like, what do you mean you got her out of the way? Like, that was not what we were supposed to do. That's like, what you mean? It's like, well, like, what do you mean? Like, she's, she's not going to get that thing. They're like, I know. Great job. Right. And it's like, no, not great job. Like we want her to do that. It's like. Well, that's just stupid. Like that's not happening. And it's just so it's, it's like, and that's what's happening inside of us. Right. And I think that we don't have any level of grace. It's like, how could the brain be so outdated? And it's like, listen, I'm not the one to take that conversation up with, right? Like I'll, I'll talk nervous system work all day. But you know, when we look at things through that lens and we recognize that like, you know, wanting something is, you know, like wanting something for ourselves is in some ways like a hundred percent of the battle because getting yourself to that want, I mean, there's people who spend a lifetime in that wanting, you know?

Lois StGermaine: 50:56

Yeah. So you're talking about that cycle that we get in that pattern, and you talk a lot about how you can take that pattern and overlay it in every area of your life and see what's happening. It's not just, we think we just have a problem in one area. And that's not necessarily true. Yeah.

Victoria St Fleur: 51:20

The pattern it's like anywhere that we do that, we're doing it elsewhere and it's usually an upper limit. There's usually a kind of max threshold that we have for things. I mean, I find that most people have a max threshold emotionally when it comes to emotion, when it comes to sensation and when it comes to responsibility. Emotion and sensation is even. wrapped in one. So I would say people's max thresholds are typically, um, they have a, they have a, they have a solid threshold for responsibility and sensation. I would say are the two big things. And so sensation is anything that arises like a feeling. So the more money you make, the more sensation you have in that. When you look at that, you know, money in your bank account, or you look at that money coming through a business and you're just like, Whoa, like there's, there's a lot to do here. And I would say that even that sensation is. And so I would say that the ultimate threshold is really about responsibility. And I think that we, as humans, um, like we, we don't want it. We don't want it. Like we just do not want it. And I would say that there's so many How do I say this? I could, I could say that there's so many reasons why humans are in so much aversion to responsibility. But what I would also say is that statistically, why is it that most people do not have a life that is like thriving? Why do most people have a life that is not, um, like really taking off? I mean, statistically, even people who are like depressed or people who have, um, You know, contemplated like taking their own lives. Like it's like the statistically it's, it's a responsibility factor. The responsibility of life weighs on people. And I think that that's something that we want as a collective need to look at, because I think that something to know is also right. Like. Freedom is really the result of responsibility in the way that most people want it, right? It's like, you want freedom of time, freedom of money, freedom of all of this, right? Versus freedom from the responsibility. It's like, I mean, well, death and homelessness, like that's really right. Like that's, that's freedom from. And so I think that's something that we look at around this when it comes to the, how do I say this? Looking at our patterns, Is like, your pattern is really just everything that you are not willing to, like, that you do not want to be responsible for meeting the fear. That's it. Patterns are just everything you do not want to be responsible for meeting the fear with. And so I think when you have a pattern of even shutting down your partner when they're trying to have a moment with you, or they're trying to be intimate or express love, or even express concern or have an argument, you don't want to be responsible for that intimacy. Right? And I would say that that's what's on the other side of all responsibility. Intimacy being like, there's fallibility, but still some sort of positivity, right? And it's, it's, it's that relationship. I think that relationship, relating, closeness, intimacy, um, like togetherness is the thing that's on the other side. It's connection is on the other side. And I think that that is power. And I think that that. Is something that people don't even know the first thing to do with. I think that it's like, if you were to, like, if somebody, if somebody would inquire like Victoria, why do you think so many people are like in resistance of this power, power, influence. Like feeling like the responsibility of like what you're capable of, feeling that responsibility of limitlessness in terms of like what you can achieve, what you can do, where you can go. I mean with the exception of kind of like North Sentinel Island and North Korea, you can pretty much go anywhere you want. You know what I mean? It's like, it's like you could go anywhere you want. You know, you want to be an entrepreneur. There's no limit to how much money you can make. You want to be the boss. You want to be the person who's like leading your life. You want to be the one to do that. You want to break the pattern. It's like that like power is on the other side of every pattern. Power is on the other side of every pattern. And I think that people don't want to recognize I have the power to go out today and wear whatever I want, speak whatever I want, do whatever I want, be whoever I want. Um, and to then also be able to do that with an integrity where like, it does not require the manipulation of other people. It is in the best interest of others. Terrifying. Terrifying. People don't even know what to do with that. Like people do not know what to do with that because ultimately, pedum, pedum, I don't know. I'm making up words. People's greatest value that they will tell you is freedom. But the one thing they resist is responsibility and that's where they're full of shit. People like nice, cohesive, predictable boxes that they can control. People like nice, predictable boxes that they can control. People don't want, they don't want freedom. Real freedom is on the other end of really responsibility, right? So even one of the first questions you said, what is the, like, where'd you get the audacity to be different is what I would say is like, I was just always audacious enough to be free. Yeah. Absolutely. Like I just, I just wanted that. I just was always in touch and in tune with power. And I was always in touch and in tune with power in spaces where people who didn't have it, didn't know how to work with it. And so they needed to shrink it, confine it for me. Right. And I mean, I tried every direction of trying to seek power, right. Like, or to have some sort of freedom. And I think that that's something that a lot of People grapple with one or the other. They want freedom or they want, they want power and what they usually end up with is irresponsibility and control, which is the shadow side, right? And so, irresponsibility and control for me was just like, a very limited and very subpar life, 15 years in addiction and, right, choosing to get, right, taking the responsibility and choosing to get sober, was, that was, that was, that was freedom. You know? And I think part of my journey of recovery was like, having a spiritual, not religious, connection. Like, that was, that was plugging into power. That was plugging into source. Like, you plug into God, you plug into power in some way. And it was kind of like, oh, like, I can do anything from here. If I'm willing to take responsibility for it, and like, ask for this, kind of intrinsic, kind of strength of something greater than me, whatever that is, I can do anything. And I think that that's the winning, really, combination, right? It's like you are able to, is that people are able to come back to that, those core desires. And so just, I mean, when I think of that in leadership, it's like when you're willing to take responsibility for the path and you're willing to plug into, really plug into power and understand influence and understand how that has the potential to change the world and change people and serve, like be of real service without any sort of manipulation, without needing to be perceived in a certain way. It's like that's That's the real leadership. That's the real goal. And I think that people Understanding wherever you see a power like a pattern There's somewhere that there's responsibility for you to take and there is something That you have power with, right? And so, right, I think, what's it called? There was definitely, uh, what's it called? I think it was like Spiderman with like great responsibility comes great power, right? Or with great power comes Yeah, right? Uncle Ben said that, yeah. And I think that wherever there is responsibility, there is power. Period. Wherever there's responsibility, there's power. And so people's a version of responsibility is a version of power.

Lois StGermaine: 59:46

I think like when I, especially with my clients and what I see in myself is we approach responsibility from, and, and anything that we want from the scarcity side of what I have to give up or what I think I'm going to lose by, you know, Stepping into that. And I think that's like a huge gap that we don't talk about and that we don't understand is if I stopped looking at, and I'll just use a simple example of when I decided in 2020 that I wasn't going to drink that year, I Not knowing what was coming in 2020. Um, the first several outings, I would be thinking, Oh, I'm not going to be able to have a glass of wine. I'm not going to be able to have this drink. Or I would think about all the things I couldn't have. And that it would be hard. Like I'd get to there and I'd stare at the drink menu going, I can't have any of this. But when I made the switch in my brain that, Oh, I'm just a non drinker. And just like I don't wake up in the morning and think, I can't have a cigarette today. Because I'm not a smoker. So I never, it never enters my brain to think about it. So I had to like make that transition of, Oh, I'm a non drinker. So I'm never going into, you know, a social event thinking about what I can't have. I'm just like, Oh, I could have water or sparkling water. I could do this. And it, I feel like we do that with every level. of responsibility or even identity shifts, right? Cause we keep talking about 10 X ing and giving up 80 percent of who we've been in order to become the next version. Well, we're so focused on what we have to give up instead of being focused on what we gain by making the change that we, we freeze, like we don't make the

Victoria St Fleur: 1:01:52

moves. The human brain is wired that way, purposely, right? It's like we are wired to avoid loss more than we are to seek gain. And that is the, I mean, it's the setback of we don't evolve unless it's necessary, right? Evolution is the, evolution is the result of like the need for adaptation. We needed to adapt. And so we evolved if we don't need to evolve, we don't need to, right. Like if we don't need, or if we don't need to adapt, we don't need to evolve. And so, you know, something I always say, which can sound a little bit kind of like intense is that like humans are this kind of overgrown parasitical species. We have no known predators, period. We are the predator. We are the apex predator. And so because of that, you're going to see a lot of parasitical behavior. And so things that are out of our natural alignment, our natural attunement, our natural attunement that my, my experience, genuinely believe this is survival in love, but we'll like, we'll see things that are very peculiar in human behavior. And so I think that there is. Out of, like, I don't want to say out of the ordinary, but I mean, like, we're meant to survive and we're meant to, like, love. Like, that's it. It's like we're just not meant to be separate. We're like animals that bond. We have this, like, um, developed, like, emotional system, right? But, like, we are not hard, right? Think of what causes trauma. Think of what causes hurt, right? And so anything outside of that, as far as I'm concerned, is really irrelevant in terms of like what we're here to experience and express, right? And so we're in a version of loss of life and loss of love at all costs. That's what we're trying to avoid, right? Like that's what we want to maintain. And I think that that in a lot of ways is beautiful and that's great. But I also think that part of this whole process, right, is that like, when we are breaking out of an unnecessary evolution is what we're choosing. You're choosing unnecessary evolution. That is not the way. A human behavior. That's not our instinctual behavior. It's like, what are you doing? You're choosing evolution. It's like, sit down, sit down. Don't do that. It's like, that's what so many people don't understand. Why is learning so challenging? Right. When, when, uh, When humans decided they were going to challenge themselves to learn, that's what created like kind of the world we live in, which is like, Whoa, like we can really challenge ourselves. But I think that we, in some ways, what we find is like we have technological advances, but notice how a lot of humans really struggle to evolve emotionally. And I think that at the core of that is like, you know, the responsibility factor. Yeah, for sure. You have to be responsible for your emotions and not blame the world around you on them. It is no one else's fault or responsibility that you feel the way you do. Right. But going back to that piece that you were sharing, right. Or just kind of tying that in with that, you were speaking to this right experience where we as humans, um, limit ourselves based on the way we speak about our identity and how we identify and what we do. I think that the big kind of connection there is that like when we actually function from a place where we preserve love and we preserve life and we are able to take responsibility for ourselves and we're able to touch that power, the only thing that defeats us is if you don't identify as that. And so I think that identity is like the final piece of like, that is the piece of, how do I say this? That is the piece that, that destroys. All of it. Because you'll never be able to outgrow that. You have to change the identity to really embody something different. And so if you can't identify as somebody who is self responsible, somebody who's powerful, somebody who is regulated and in control of their own emotions, somebody you don't ide if you're, right, and here's the other thing, right, is like that bottom line we talked about, that's your identity. That, that bottom bar is the identity. And I think that that's the piece, right. And this is even from like, right. Our beloved 10 X is easier than two X. Something Benjamin Harney says is he says your identity is just your standard. He said it's the thing you're the most committed to. He said, and if you're committed to dropping that bar every time, that's your, that's that bottom line, that's your identity. And so I think that what we, when we talk, go back to that, like, why is that bottom bar so relevant? Because everything else is you just pretending to be someone. You are that bottom line. And when people realize, like, oh shit, like I'm that bottom line. Like, what you take responsibility for determines that bottom line. Your power determines that bottom line. How you choose to move through the world. If you choose to move through the world, right, with love and service, like, to actually see, like, what's gonna be the thing that creates a better world, a better place, that's gonna be the bottom line, and that's gonna be who you are, and that's gonna be what you create, and money is just gonna amplify that in you. Money's gonna amplify your bottom line. And if your bottom line is that you're greedy and you're irresponsible and you're an asshole, money's gonna amplify that too. And so I think that the bottom line work with everything in, like, your standards, is essentially, right, like, like, what is that power that you have amplifying? Is it something that feels solid? Is it something that's contributing? Is it something worth amplifying? Is it something that's I don't want to say like making like a positive outcome, a positive impact, but is it something that's actually worth, is it something worth amplifying?

Lois StGermaine: 1:07:57

Yeah, I think it's interesting because what we have been taught or have been ingrained with is that our identity is the role, right? It's the title. It's the, you're the mom or you're, you're an addict or you're a this or And we don't understand, especially when we shift into business, that What you just said, right? That our standards are in our values are who we are. And there's a lot of dissonance between what we've been led to believe and what is actually. True. And again, not a lot of people talking about that. And I think it's like a huge disservice to people who come into, especially come into the entrepreneurial space and think that they can just call themselves CEO and The power will be bestowed upon them, right? It's, it's like we say in the corporate world all the time, it's circumstantial power. Yes. I have power over you because my title and the hierarchy says so, but when you step out of that world and into the entrepreneurial world, it's a whole different ballgame.

Victoria St Fleur: 1:09:21

And I think that most people need other people to feel power because they need to put themselves in. Two things, proximity to it. If I'm in proximity to you and you're powerful, I will feel that, right? So like the proximity is going to give me power because you're powerful or it's going to give me power because I have power over you. And those are the usually the ways that people experience it. So when people are in a corporate setting, they're getting that feeling of power because of their proximity to the boss, right? They're getting it because of that proximity. They're getting it because of the proximity to the boss. They're getting it because of that proximity to what's it called? They're getting it because of the proximity to the boss, or they're getting it in proximity to their team that they're leading because they have power over the team. Right. And so when people are looking at, like, can you feel power independent of who's around you, then that's a conversation to have. If you can't feel power without people around you, you don't know what power is. You're talking about a power dynamic. If you need proximity for power, that's not it. Like that's, that's not what most that's, that, that, that's not real power, right? Like real power is like when you plug into yourself as a source, when you're outsourcing it and you're putting that into someone, on something else. That's a totally different, that's a totally different ballgame for people.

Lois StGermaine: 1:11:00

And it's a, it's a real innate power that you feel. And I know we've been talking about some bold moves that we've been making, and just making that move like shifts your whole identity around power. And that feeling that you have inside is just, it's a little different.

Victoria St Fleur: 1:11:23

And it makes you want to do more. It's chosen evolution. I'm taking responsibility to rise in my identity and therefore I'm making a move from power, not to get power. It's like, I don't think that power is going to be the result of the move. Power is the motivation. And I think that that's something a lot of people don't, they're like, Oh, well, I didn't recognize, I didn't realize that. And it's like, well, that's what a lot of people are missing.

Lois StGermaine: 1:11:52

Well, I know you and I could talk for like four hours, but honoring, honoring the abundance and lack of scarcity, you can come back and we can do another one. But, um, before you go, I would love it if you want to share anything that we didn't cover that you think is really important for the audience to hear. And then also tell us about the amazing offers that you have coming up. That sounds like we're going to

Victoria St Fleur: 1:12:21

be here for another four hours because I could. No, I'm kidding. So anything final that I would say to people, um, the work that you do to really choose who you are is the most important work that I think you're ever going to do. I think that that just is like the most important thing because you are your template for every part of your future. You are the template for every single aspect of like the, the rest of your life. And if you are in any way, um, If you are operating in opposition to who and what you want to be, um, you just limit the world's experience of you. And I truly believe that like that, when you, instead of living life, I'm trying to find out who I am. It's more of like, go out and create who you are, go choose who you are, like take the full responsibility for that process of creation. I think that that's like the most important thing that I would say. And so whatever that work looks like to first dismantle everything, you're not right, like get rid of everything. That's not actually, you is probably the most powerful move you'll ever make. I think it's like the most. rebellious move you could ever make. I think that it's the most empowering move you could ever make. I think that it's going to be the most beneficial, the most inspiring move that we could ever make. Um, so yeah, as a, as a whole, I think that that would be, I think that would be the most important thing that I would share with people. And outside of that, I am currently doing, um, What's like the most current thing that I would say is on the agenda is actually patterns of power. It's the, the shadow work around everything that we were really just talking about and looking at how are we in relationship with genuine power as a result of responsibility as opposed to being in this opposition where we are outsourcing and we're pulling it from people so that we can really just come into more, a more integral understanding of who we are.

Lois StGermaine: 1:14:33

Awesome. And how do we find

Victoria St Fleur: 1:14:34

me at, uh, on Instagram is the easiest way to find me at of root and branch is pretty much the, the hub of all things where you can find me over there, which, um, after recent conversation with Lois may be changing in the near future, but that is absolutely going to be the space to find me.

Lois StGermaine: 1:14:53

Yeah. And we'll link it all in the show notes. They can find you, but this has been amazing. Thank you so much.

1:14:59

So again, I want to say thank you BIC, because you have given us more than just insights today. You've held up a mirror to how we show up in our own lives and your ability to blend humor with hard truths. While leading with such a grounded authenticity is a gift. This conversation has been nothing short of transformative. And I know our listeners are walking away with a deeper understanding of the power. They already hold within themselves. Thank you so much for your transparency, your Udacity, and for challenging us all to raise our bottom bar. And for everyone listening, if today's episode has sparked something in you, don't just sit with it, act on it. Victoria's work is a masterclass in breaking down patterns and stepping into true power. You can find her on Instagram at of root and branch. And trust me, you're going to want to follow along. And until next time, remember real leadership starts when you dare to lead yourself.